SOUL EATER project leader here — sorry this is late. We continued to find more and more errors after shifting everything to the Late Show, which we’ll be doing exclusively from now on. Things to note about our releases are:
- HD-only! Like with our original scrapped release of the first episode, we’ll be releasing in 720p only. However, we’ve bumped down our target file-size considerably.
- There are two subs! We have a Translated Terminology sub (TT for short [the default sub]) that leaves no Roman-ized Japanese and an Original Terminology sub (OT for short) that Roman-izes the Japanese for the proper nouns (titles, attack names, etc) with Translation Notes (TL Notes).
- Now with alpha-timing! Our new timer for the project introduced this to the project, and it compliments the structure-matching subs very well.
BT:
- [AniYoshi]_SOUL_EATER_-_Late_Show_-_01_[C50B6BFC].mkv
- [AniYoshi]_SOUL_EATER_-_Late_Show_-_02_[0D9315D6].mkv
XDCC:
[AniYoshi]_SOUL_EATER_-_Late_Show_-_01_[C50B6BFC].mkv
- /msg [AniYoshi]Ayano XDCC SEND #110
- /msg [AniYoshi]Kaze XDCC SEND #110
[AniYoshi]_SOUL_EATER_-_Late_Show_-_02_[0D9315D6].mkv
- /msg [AniYoshi]Ayano XDCC SEND #111
- /msg [AniYoshi]Kaze XDCC SEND #111
39 Responses for "SOUL EATER - Late Show 01 & 02"
May 30th, 2008 at 10:03 am 01
So~
You guys finally decide to release the Late Night version, and decided to prioritize it?
=P
May 30th, 2008 at 10:09 am 02
Obviously, yes. We just don’t see a good reason why we should do the primetime version anymore.
May 30th, 2008 at 10:11 am 03
what is “alpha timing”?
May 30th, 2008 at 10:22 am 04
Alpha-timing is where a part or parts of a line appear after the initial appearance of the line to stylishly match the audio.
May 30th, 2008 at 10:34 am 05
ewwwwwww. why. why? why?! alpha timing!!!! why?! ewwwww. why?! spinal?! why?! WHY?! WHYYYYYYYY?!
May 30th, 2008 at 10:37 am 06
Spinal left the project after shifting to the Late Show due to the stress of working on too many different series.
May 30th, 2008 at 1:12 pm 07
I was wondering when you guy would shift to doing the Late Night show as a priority.
I talked about it in the forums so I guess I did have some kind of influence on the decision?
=)
May 30th, 2008 at 1:32 pm 08
I just now read your topic after reading your message, so no, I don’t think that you’ve influenced my decision.
Sorry.
May 30th, 2008 at 2:34 pm 09
Well whatever.
I just got Episode 01 & Episode 02 LATE NIGHT and I’ve decided to stick with you guys.
[Saizen-AnimeEmpire] did a great job but I noticed that:
a. they take way too long
b. they edit out weird things and replace it with English instead of translating it
c. i did like their karaoke effects, but the ones you guys use are excellent
So yea~
Keep it up! I hope to watch through this great series with you guys all the way through the end!
– suiton
May 30th, 2008 at 3:33 pm 10
Not to speak badly of A-E & Saizen, but they missed nearly all of the TL Notes for the second episode. The one that they did catch, they botched (they only got half of the double-pun being made and stated that it belonged Tsubaki’s Meister rather Tsubaki herself).
TL Notes aside, like all of the other groups (us not included) subbing SOUL EATER, they do general translations over accurate translations — which are technically mistranslations over than fifty percent of the time.
When I’m not bogged down by keeping this project progressing (id est, catching up), I’ll post a line-by-line translation comparison for all of the English translations of the first episode so you can see just how mistranslated it is.
May 30th, 2008 at 8:46 pm 11
I suppose I’ll stick to S9. Alpha-timing isn’t my favorite thing after Toki-Fansubs OverDrive. And S9’s translation seems pretty accurate too.
May 30th, 2008 at 8:59 pm 12
s9’s release of the first episode tells me that they do general translations like A-E & Saizen and all of the speed-subbing groups subbing SOUL EATER. If they decided to do accurate translations over general translations, it must have been after said first episode.
May 31st, 2008 at 4:07 am 13
Thanks for picking up the late night version.
I was hoping that a quality fansub group would pick it up. Look forward to downloading it from you guys as you release them
May 31st, 2008 at 11:06 am 14
“b. they edit out weird things and replace it with English instead of translating it”
Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t replacing with English equate to translating? Contradict much?
Also, I’d be interested to know what “mistranslations” you have found, RtS. Yes I admit that our sub is somewhat more liberal than literal, but that’s the best way it will fit in English - especially with the use of engrish and puns. Any truly literal translation would leave English audiences going “Wha…?” and millions of untranslated terms and translation notes - oh wait, that’s what Animeyoshi did, isn’t it?
May 31st, 2008 at 11:29 am 15
“millions of untranslated terms and translation notes”
Reason why we include two scripts. You guys obviously have a different view on how to translate(liberal vs. literal), which I personally have no problem with as an English speaker. However, as RtS is fluent in Japanese, it’s understandable why he might criticize the translation(of course, like anyone, he has to provide legit proof to back up his criticisms, though).
May 31st, 2008 at 11:31 am 16
With that said, I hope this doesn’t turn into some kind of epeen contest.
May 31st, 2008 at 12:00 pm 17
“Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t replacing with English equate to translating? Contradict much?”
No, translation is “the process of translating words or text from one language into another” (Oxford). Transferring just the general meaning isn’t a translation. Many translators hold the misconception that the window for translation is very wide when it is, in fact, very narrow.
“Also, I’d be interested to know what ‘mistranslations’ you have found, RtS. Yes I admit that our sub is somewhat more liberal than literal, but that’s the best way it will fit in English - especially with the use of engrish and puns.”
Liberal is just a fancier way to say general when it comes to translation — which, again, is mistranslation over fifty percent of the time.
Now, I admit that there are also technical mistranslations in our sub as well; however, never full lines. I’ll compare one line for you right now (the most complicated one for the first episode):
A-E & Saizen:
“Any man would prefer… a lady with a nice body to a shorty like you.”
AnimeYoshi:
“For guys, anyone, over a short-and-ugly like you, would decide on the nice bodied plump big sis, wouldn’t he?”
日本語 (Japanese):
「男なら、誰でも、お前みたいなチンチクリンより、ナイスバディのムチムチ姉ちゃんのほうがいいに決まってるだろ。」
“If he’s a guy, anyone, over a short-and-ugly like you, would be agreeing that the nice bodied plump big sis is better, right?”
As you can see, there is mistranslation even in our line. I think you can agree that, while making small sacrifice for an easier read, ours is still closer to the perfect translation.
“Any truly literal translation would leave English audiences going ‘Wha…?’”
On the fly (so to speak), yes. However, even the perfect translation here is still perfect English. It just doesn’t match the pace as much as as the more colloquial line.
“…and millions of untranslated terms and translation notes… - oh wait, that’s what Animeyoshi did, isn’t it? :D”
You should learn your information before you communicate upon it. Your reference only matches our secondary scripts and scrapped release. The translation notes for our primary scripts are for things that all of the other groups seemed to have failed to grasp.
Please do no fault us for your seemingly shortcomings.
May 31st, 2008 at 12:16 pm 18
I hardly see how translating “witch” is a shortcoming… :S
Okay, let’s pick this line apart from an English perspective:
“For guys, anyone, over a short-and-ugly like you, would decide on the nice bodied plump big sis, wouldn’t he?”
Ignoring the major comma splice for a minute and the fact that nice-bodied should be hyphenated (though how such an ugly-looking word ever made it into a sub, I’ll never know >.>), “short-and-ugly” is a description not a noun, and translating oneechan as ‘big sis’ is erroneous because it doesn’t have the same meaning in English (unless you’re speaking gangster maybe… and then it would have to be sista :D). Also, why use “guys” and then use “anyone”? It’s not anyone because you’ve specified that it’s “guys” already - which is probably fine in Japanese (in fact, I know it is due to the grammatical structure used), but is confusing in English.
Our line, however, conveys all the information accurately and succinctly - not only making perfect sense in English, but using words like “shorty” that suggest rather than spell out. Yes, as I’ve said, this is not a literal translation - but then, translations rarely are…
After all, if it was that easy to translate between languages, anyone with a vague language skill would become a translator. Look at professional translations, for example: they cater to the target language, while still maintaining a high accuracy in translating and attempting to incorporate as many “literal” elements as possible.
If you are going to call our subs “mistranslated”, then I expect more substantial “evidence” than that…
May 31st, 2008 at 1:07 pm 19
“I hardly see how translating “witch” is a shortcoming… :S”
Neither do I. I was referring to the TL Notes contained in our primary sub, not in our secondary sub. Do keep up, please. I’m stock-on with your sub.
“Okay, let’s pick this line apart from an English perspective:”
Oh, goodness. Yes, let’s pick apart perfectly proper English.
“Ignoring the major comma splice for a minute…”
A pause here. Therein the perfect translation lies absolutely zero comma-splicing. Interjecting clauses are not foreign to English nor are they substandard.
By your faulty logic, “He, however, did not find the joke to be funny” contains comma splice.
Do you even know what comma-splicing is? Comma-splicing is COMPLETE sentences separated by commas. Not a single one of those clauses can stand as an independent one.
Please do not falsely correct my English.
“…and the fact that nice-bodied should be hyphenated…”
That is a matter of preference and new-age proficient English. My older English is still entirely proper, thank you very much.
“(though how such an ugly-looking word ever made it into a sub, I’ll never know >.>)”
“…“short-and-ugly” is a description not a noun…”
Both words have been used as nouns in mainstream English (British English uses “short” as a noun and then we have “the good, the bad, and the ugly”). As we weren’t writing a thesis for a Master’s degree, it’s acceptable. It isn’t formal, but it isn’t something I would have marked off as an English professor.
“…and translating oneechan as ‘big sis’ is erroneous because it doesn’t have the same meaning in English…”
I hate to break it to you, but an 「お姉さん」 is an older sister. Before my wife and I made our home-purchase, I remember the next-door-neighbors calling my younger sister “big sis” as she would play with them and babysit them time to time. We matched the formality (or rather, the lack thereof) in our English.
“(unless you’re speaking gangster maybe… and then it would have to be sista :D)”
I fail to see the connection here.
“Also, why use “guys” and then use “anyone”?”
No, we used the singular: “guy” — thus making it proper English.
“It’s not anyone because you’ve specified that it’s “guys” already - which is probably fine in Japanese (in fact, I know it is due to the grammatical structure used), but is confusing in English.”
Confusing to you, maybe, but it is still PROPER English. It is still “anyone” because the “guy” is not specified. I hate to break it to you, but a “guy” is still “one.” It makes perfectly logical sense and is very basic in understanding. Attempting to over-complicate it won’t serve you.
“Our line, however, conveys all the information accurately and succinctly - not only making perfect sense in English, but using words like “shorty” that suggest rather than spell out.”
This is entirely regardless of the point. Please fully read my prior message again (or for the first time if you haven’t yet). The point here is the translation — not the mere transference of the general meaning.
Also, no, you failed to match the information “accurately and succinctly.” As with our line, your line has the tense wrong (the original is action-in-progress).” Unlike us, however, you simply omitted the “if-clause” factor instead of at least substituting for it. You also misused the “to” in your line. The seventh usage of the said word is to “introduce the second element in COMPARISON” (Oxford) — not “contrast.”
“Yes, as I’ve said, this is not a literal translation - but then, translations rarely are…”
Again, please fully read my prior message again (if you haven’t already).
“After all, if it was that easy to translate between languages, anyone with a vague language skill would become a translator.”
That should be my line. You all are the ones opting for the general translation over the accurate one — not us. It doesn’t take fluency in a language to grasp its meaning. Thanks for backing up my point, however.
“Look at professional translations, for example: they cater to the target language, while still maintaining a high accuracy in translating and attempting to incorporate as many “literal” elements as possible.”
That is entirely untrue. Again, please fully read my prior message again (if you haven’t already).
“If you are going to call our subs “mistranslated”, then I expect more substantial “evidence” than that…”
I don’t see how I can give you anything more substantial than reality. Your sub did NOT “translate all of the WORDS or TEXT” from the original Japanese into English, merely the general meaning which even my sister, who is not fluent in Japanese, can do.
Oh yeah, therein that last sentence lies another comma splice by your logic. Cheers.
May 31st, 2008 at 1:36 pm 20
RtS, is it possible to point out stuff such as you did in AE&Saizen’s in our release too?
Like you guys had:
“For guys, anyone, over a short-and-ugly like you, would decide on the nice bodied plump big sis, wouldn’t he?”
We had:
“Any sane guy would immediately drop a stumpy girl like you, if it meant he’d be joining up with a chick who has a blazin’ hot body!”
The translation is pretty similar, isn’t it? Plus, personally, I think ours fits Soul’s character more so. But, please point some stuff out since I’m not a translator and can’t say much.
Thanks.
May 31st, 2008 at 1:49 pm 21
“I’m stock-on with your sub.”
You’re what now? Is this another one of your “perfectly proper English” phrases? Because I haven’t a clue what that means - and it seems that my dictionary doesn’t either…
“That is a matter of preference and new-age proficient English.”
New-age? We’re not talking hippies here, we’re talking a language that has evolved to its highest form of clarity and eloquence. And how can you use “new-age” and “proficient” as linked adjectives? The least you should do is have a comma between them…
“It very well could be by the fact that he actually said it — just maybe.”
That’s like saying you wrote a book based on real events and kept really bad scenes “because that’s how it happened.” He may actually say it - but in Japanese, no doubt that word has different cultural contexts to the same word in English. Anything “bodied” usually refers to wine or drink in general, more than to a woman. Yes, “a nice body” would, but not nice-bodied. It’s all about the way language is used by the native tongue, not by how “proper” the English is, especially when you’re not being formal, as you stated (though if you’d prefer to write a thesis, I’m sure you could use nice-bodied to your heart’s content).
“Both words have been used as nouns in mainstream English (British English uses “short” as a noun and then we have “the good, the bad, and the ugly”).”
A short as a measurement of drink, perhaps. What other meaning were you gleaning from “short” being a noun? And that use of ugly as a noun is actually a different English grammatical point, known as synecdoche where one attribute is used to describe a whole. In the case of the film title, it works because it’s a single example (the character becomes known for his ugliness). However, in your line, you’ve stated that it’s a “short-and-ugly like you” which isn’t a specific example because A) it references other short-and-uglies (inherent flaw) and B) it also uses the pronoun “you” which would generally be replaced by the synecdoche itself.
“I hate to break it to you, but an「お姉さん」is an older sister. Before my wife and I made our home-purchase, I remember the next-door-neighbors calling my younger sister “big sis” as she would play with them and babysit them time to time. We matched the formality (or rather, the lack thereof) in our English.”
I always thought I’d be the last person to correct anyone on Japanese - but the context here is… let’s put it this way, Oneechan can be used in a less familial way in Japanese than it is in English. Like the various anime series where two guys come up to a girl in the street and coax her to do karaoke with them, calling her Oneechan. I think (though not entirely sure) that the word itself can actually be used for any older woman within a certain age gap, regardless of how related they are to you.
“No, we used the singular: “guy” — thus making it proper English.”
Then either you have misquoted yourself in your first post of the line here, or you don’t remember your own edits. Up to you on which it is but it clearly states above:
“AnimeYoshi:
“For guys, anyone, over a short-and-ugly like you, would decide on the nice bodied plump big sis, wouldn’t he?” ‘
Very singular…
“That is entirely untrue.”
Please post evidence of this.
If you were a true editor, RtS (which I’m beginning to doubt by the way this conversation is going), you would understand that editing a translation is about salvaging as much as you can from the source language while maintaining a high level of contact with your target audience. A lot of the time, this is an arduous, thankless task - hours can be wasted on the phrasing of one line because either you’ve cut too much from it, or you can’t accurately express what you want to in your target language. And sometimes, it turns out that select idioms and phrases in the target language are actually more suited to translating the idea of a line than any literal translation could be.
Now don’t get me wrong - I’m not suggesting completely changing puns or segments of the dialogue purely to suit fluency in the target language (I’ve seen official releases that have completely changed scripts and meanings that way - even added dialogue where there wasn’t any before). I’m just saying that, to even border on mistranslation, there has to be more in it than a preference for wording.
So, please take back your accusation if you refuse to back it up with some hard proof.
May 31st, 2008 at 5:40 pm 22
“You’re what now? Is this another one of your ‘perfectly proper English’ phrases? Because I haven’t a clue what that means - and it seems that my dictionary doesn’t either…”
Yeah, it’s as perfectly proper as any reference is. Ever heard of stocks? Shares? Sorry to break it to you, but that wasn’t at all obscure. Go ahead and continue to play dumb, however, if you believe it’ll progress our discussion.
“New-age? We’re not talking hippies here, we’re talking a language that has evolved to its highest form of clarity and eloquence.”
Inferences over the internet now? I hope that I will never come to be so mentally clouded as to make them. If you’re quite done with reading between the lines where there is only blank space, I hope that you will respond to my words for their meaning rather than any secondary meaning that exists within your own world outside of reality.
By new-age, I mean the opposite of old-age — ergo, the current new age as opposed to the old one. Why exactly must I explain every single basic concept to you?
“And how can you use “new-age” and “proficient” as linked adjectives? The least you should do is have a comma between them…”
Because in the NEWER AGES has English become a more PROFICIENT language. A little reading comprehension probably won’t kill you.
“The least you should do is have a comma between them…”
Entirely unnecessary as they are, in fact, linked (with one qualifying the other).
“That’s like saying you wrote a book based on real events and kept really bad scenes ‘because that’s how it happened.’”
No, that’s like translating as noted by definition of translating — oh, wait, that’s exactly what it is.
“Anything ‘bodied’ usually refers to wine or drink in general, more than to a woman.”
You’re the only one who seems to have a problem with it, as this is the first complaint I’ve received thus concerning that line.
“Yes, ‘a nice body’ would, but not nice-bodied. It’s all about the way language is used by the native tongue, not by how ‘proper’ the English is, especially when you’re not being formal, as you stated (though if you’d prefer to write a thesis, I’m sure you could use nice-bodied to your heart’s content).”
I respect your opinion, but opinion holds no place within arguments. This isn’t grade-school. I used it how it was used in the Japanese because it works in both languages, regardless of what one FalseDawn believes.
“A short as a measurement of drink, perhaps. What other meaning were you gleaning from ’short’ being a noun?”
Off of the top of my head, films, signals, circuits, people, and mixtures.
“And that use of ugly as a noun is actually a different English grammatical point, known as synecdoche where one attribute is used to describe a whole. In the case of the film title, it works because it’s a single example (the character becomes known for his ugliness).”
Quite exactly. Soul could find one ATTRIBUTE of Maka ugly and therefore qualify her existence as thus in the use of a synecdoche.
“However, in your line, you’ve stated that it’s a ’short-and-ugly like you’ which isn’t a specific example because A) it references other short-and-uglies (inherent flaw) and B) it also uses the pronoun ‘you’ which would generally be replaced by the synecdoche itself.”
Incorrect. “A short-and-ugly like YOU” is specific enough as it specifically gives specific comparison to a specific individual. I specifically believe that it can be specifically understood that such is specific enough. Also, the reference is singular and not plural (see: “A short-and-ugly like you” and “. The synecdoche is obviously the aforementioned paired terms.
“I always thought I’d be the last person to correct anyone on Japanese - but the context here is… let’s put it this way, Oneechan can be used in a less familial way in Japanese than it is in English.”
I haven’t always thought that someone would try to falsely correct me on my native language — but the context and usage here is regardless as the meaning is still the same. 「姉」 remains to mean an older sister. My example stands correct. However, if you feel your Japanese knowledge to be superior to mine, maybe we should continue our discussion therein so that you can teach me a thing or two? I’d love to see your wonderful display of 「尊敬語」 and 「謙譲語」 within your usage of 「敬語」 and see how I follow along.
“Like the various anime series where two guys come up to a girl in the street and coax her to do karaoke with them, calling her Oneechan. I think (though not entirely sure) that the word itself can actually be used for any older woman within a certain age gap, regardless of how related they are to you.”
Ah, but therein lies your misconception: the meaning doesn’t change — merely the context within which the word is used.
“Then either you have misquoted yourself in your first post of the line here, or you don’t remember your own edits. Up to you on which it is but it clearly states above:”
…
“Very singular…”
That would be the second. Regardless of my confusion with my production of the perfect translation, I made a mistake, and I apologize for inconveniencing you with it: I’m sorry.
That English, however, is still correct.
“If you were a true editor, RtS (which I’m beginning to doubt by the way this conversation is going)…
I was wondering when the jabs would come. Personally, however, I would have rather laced it so delicately as to be a jab without actually being one. Regardless, I will hold true to the saying of “sticks and stones.”
“…you would understand that editing a translation is about salvaging as much as you can from the source language while maintaining a high level of contact with your target audience.”
In my years of fan-subbing (starting back with #bakakozou), my experience as an editor holds to be quite different: to remain as true as possible to the translation while within proper and feasible English to match proper Japanese. Obviously, as seen our sub, we’ve matched fake Japanese with fake English (”ain’t” for 「～じゃねー」).
“A lot of the time, this is an arduous, thankless task - hours can be wasted on the phrasing of one line because either you’ve cut too much from it, or you can’t accurately express what you want to in your target language.”
No, that’s quite a bit easier than what I’ve been doing. If I were to simply toss in English equivalents to convey the meaning over the addition of what’s actually being said, my work as a translation checker and editor would take less than an hour as opposed to more than four.
“And sometimes, it turns out that select idioms and phrases in the target language are actually more suited to translating the idea of a line than any literal translation could be.”
I don’t agree, nor do I believe that Anime-Empire agrees. I did follow their Yakitate!! Japan sub on which they did a neat job, and they took our route with the translation notes (again, if you failed to do me the same service of fully reading my messages, I am referring to our new TT sub over the OT sub).
“Now don’t get me wrong - I’m not suggesting completely changing puns or segments of the dialogue purely to suit fluency in the target language (I’ve seen official releases that have completely changed scripts and meanings that way - even added dialogue where there wasn’t any before). I’m just saying that, to even border on mistranslation, there has to be more in it than a preference for wording.”
I’ve already stated my part on this. I won’t repeat myself for your lack of fully reading my messages if it exists.
“So, please take back your accusation if you refuse to back it up with some hard proof.”
Been there and done that. However, in light of your “superior” Japanese knowledge, it’s understandable that you cannot understand it. Hell, I even made it lighter by showing our own matching inadequacy to lessen any blow you may have found it, but it was apparently unnecessary as you’ve chosen to ignore it altogether.
Also, I like how you have the balls to communicate to me upon obscure English when you utterly botched your “comma splice” mention. I also like how you have the balls to utterly ignore my correction when I shove it right into your face.
It IS said that ignorance is bliss.
May 31st, 2008 at 5:56 pm 23
S9, I’m very sorry that I did not notice your response and did not type out a message for you first.
“RtS, is it possible to point out stuff such as you did in AE&Saizen’s in our release too?”
I did want to save this for the line-by-line forum message, but yes, it’s only fair that I give you the same.
“We had:
‘Any sane guy would immediately drop a stumpy girl like you, if it meant he’d be joining up with a chick who has a blazin’ hot body!’
I’m sorry if you find this offensive…
This is more-so extreme in mistranslation than A-E & Saizen’s work. Nowhere in what’s being said is there mention of “sanity,” “dropping” someone, “joining up” with someone, or of a “chick who has a blazin’ hot body.”
Now, most of the general meaning IS there, but like with A-E & Saizen’s work, it’s still a technical mistranslation for lack of transferring what’s actually being said.
The reason that yours is a more extreme mistranslation is because your general meaning is only synonymous with the actual general meaning.
“The translation is pretty similar, isn’t it?”
That’s the problem. Translation isn’t about similarity. Similarity itself is a variable with many different ranges.
“Plus, personally, I think ours fits Soul’s character more so.”
You are absolutely right here. It matches his CHARACTER. However, for this line, his Japanese is actually rather tame compared to other lines. All he really did was omit the 「い」 in his usage of the action-in-progress tense.
“But, please point some stuff out since I’m not a translator and can’t say much.
Thanks.”
There you go. You have the perfect translation to contrast it against if you want a part-by-part dissection.
Again, sorry that I missed your response.
May 31st, 2008 at 11:17 pm 24
sorry for the previous one, wrong one pasted, my bad (please delete it if possible)
I should be doing more important things right now than writing this but I just couldn’t help myself. So let me in your little quarrel.
At first some things about me:
- I am NOT English native speaker but this point of view is also important, isn’t it
- I am NOT a translator, nor am I studying anything related to it
- I am following A-E&Saizen subs for Soul Eater, so you may call me subjective if you want but I will try not to be
- I can’t speak/write/read Japanese (unfortunately)
Now for that line from earlier:
A-E & Saizen:
“Any man would prefer… a lady with a nice body to a shorty like you.”
AnimeYoshi:
“For guys, anyone, over a short-and-ugly like you, would decide on the nice bodied plump big sis, wouldn’t he?”
From both of those I kinda get the meaning and it’s almost the same to me. However I find AY’s one somehow wierd. Not the translation but the sentence structure. I think it would go better like this:
“For guys, anyone would decide on the nice bodied plump big sis, over a short-and-ugly like you, wouldn’t he?”
I admit that this way it look like A-E&S’s one and only the translation differs but it flows better to me. Like I said earlier, translation wise I don’t see much difference there.
So now what I think about translation in general:
I think it’s converting from one language to another but absolutely NOT word by word, not in most cases. This all depends on both languages. They can be similar to each other in many ways which makes things easier but they can be completely different in almost every aspect. Translator should have at least some knowledge about both of those languages, their grammar and their flow.
I don’t think completely literal translation is better than liberal. It should be edited according to the customs of target language. Simply because there might be cases where, while you get the original meaning, it’s transalted in a way nobody would use it, even though they would probably know what you mean.
Also staying as close to the original as possible is bad if it doesn’t fit in the end. Reason is written above.
Well that would be all. All of this is just my opinion, you are free to disagree with me, I know I could be wrong.
Keep it up and good luck in the future.
May 31st, 2008 at 11:39 pm 25
Ah, so you’re native Japanese are you, RtS? Okay, that explains a lot. Tell me, when this line you’ve mentioned reached the QC stage, how many people noted it as being awkward?
Rather than writing another wall of text (which will get us nowhere in the end), let me say this: while you might have a high degree of understanding of the Japanese language, it’s become apparent that you don’t care much for English grammar and its natural flow. I’ve always thought that Animeyoshi had a strange editing style, and it seems I’ve hit upon the crux of why this is. Translation isn’t about being “literal.” It may surprise you to know, but I’ve actually done a course in editing translations - and do you know what the first rule was? Making it sound as though it isn’t a translation while remaining true to the original.
I’d say that AE-Saizen’s version achieves that. Animeyoshi’s doesn’t. Now, if you’re to continue this “mistranslation” debate, I again ask for proof of a line that’s mistranslated, not a quirk of either the translator or editor to try and make it actually sound English.
June 1st, 2008 at 6:29 am 26
“From both of those I kinda get the meaning and it’s almost the same to me.”
Sadly, the meaning isn’t in question here, the translation is.
“I think it’s converting from one language to another but absolutely NOT word by word, not in most cases.”
Regardless of what you think, translation remains to be as cited.
“I don’t think completely literal translation is better than liberal.”
As prior noted, liberal is just a fancier way to say general which technically isn’t translation. However, it is up to you as to whether or not you cease to entertain yourself with your misconceptions.
“Tell me, when this line you’ve mentioned reached the QC stage, how many people noted it as being awkward?”
Yes, people did note upon it being awkward. However, that is entirely and utterly regardless. “Awkward” is a matter of opinion. Opinions hold no place in argumentation — in bickering, sure.
“Rather than writing another wall of text (which will get us nowhere in the end)…”
Indeed, seeing as you don’t own up to your lies that I call you out on and choose to simply ignore them.
“while you might have a high degree of understanding of the Japanese language, it’s become apparent that you don’t care much for English grammar and its natural flow.”
Sadly, for you, English grammar is entirely flexible and up to the speaker. Sentences can be rearranged multiple ways with the same words and still be proper. You remain to be entitled to your OPINION and PREFERENCE as to what you THINK or BELIEVE to be its “natural flow,” however.
“I’ve always thought that Animeyoshi had a strange editing style, and it seems I’ve hit upon the crux of why this is.”
This is only my second project with AnimeYoshi, so what you believe to “seem” doesn’t quite qualify — but again, there is a saying for ignorance.
“Translation isn’t about being “literal.” It may surprise you to know, but I’ve actually done a course in editing translations - and do you know what the first rule was? Making it sound as though it isn’t a translation while remaining true to the original.”
The example of your line, the authoritative dictionary that is Oxford, and my own experience both disagree with you. I’ve taken Japanese-to-English translation courses and addressed J-E translation in conference.
The key to translation is remaining as loyal to the original while still being proper within the new. Your “liberal” silliness, honestly, doesn’t work out for everyone in the first place for the fact that many different English speakers are liberal in different ways with different vocabularies differently consisting of different words. The fact of that alone breaks your argument.
True Japanese-to-English translation, however, will follow a pattern, thus in after following true Japanese-to-English translation and becoming comfortable with it, one won’t find much of it to be awkward to him or her at all.
“I’d say that AE-Saizen’s version achieves that.”
Indeed, it sure does achieve “making it sound as though it isn’t a translation.” As for “remaining true to the original,” no, not quite.
“Now, if you’re to continue this “mistranslation” debate, I again ask for proof of a line that’s mistranslated, not a quirk of either the translator or editor to try and make it actually sound English.”
Having shoved said proof into your face much earlier in this discussion, though in your misconstrued understanding of the Japanese language, you seemed to have failed in grasping it, I won’t be repeating myself. You can wallow in your ignorance for all that I care until I have the time to do my line-by-line for the first episode — and even then, you still may choose to be, or may be thus by default due to incapability, ignorant.
Have a wonderful Sunday.
June 1st, 2008 at 7:46 am 27
Okay, seeing as you won’t actually address the issue. Tell me, what are the differences in translation here:
A-E & Saizen:
“Any man would prefer… a lady with a nice body to a shorty like you.”
AnimeYoshi:
“For guys, anyone, over a short-and-ugly like you, would decide on the nice bodied plump big sis, wouldn’t he?”
Take each section of the line if you like. They’re actually pretty close in translation, with only the editing preferences changing things. Nothing is “mistranslated” and you still haven’t provided any proof of why you think it is. Seriously, you’re just making yourself look silly now. I mean, this line:
“Yes, people did note upon it being awkward. However, that is entirely and utterly regardless. “Awkward” is a matter of opinion.”
That made me chuckle. So you’re providing a translation that’s hard to read (native English speakers have even told you this) when subtitles rely on the viewers’ abilities to read the text onscreen. Yeah, that sounds like a great way to sub…
June 1st, 2008 at 8:02 am 28
Of course the translation needs to be faithful to what’s being said in Japanese. But there’s not an editing process scheduled after that for nothing. Translating may be what you say it is, releasing it in the form of a fansub doesn’t necessary mean that it needs to remain as such. The job of an editor is to make sure that the lines are easily read and understandable without changing too much of the original meaning; not to make sure that the translator translated every word and not to make sure that the sentences stay 100% true to its original translation.
What you are saying is that if you translate it, there’s no need of editing since it should be perfect already. I just can’t seem to agree with that, especially after looking at your own example.
June 1st, 2008 at 11:37 am 29
“Okay, seeing as you won’t actually address the issue. Tell me, what are the differences in translation here:
A-E & Saizen:
‘Any man would prefer… a lady with a nice body to a shorty like you.’
AnimeYoshi:
‘For guys, anyone, over a short-and-ugly like you, would decide on the nice bodied plump big sis, wouldn’t he?”
I’ve been addressing the issue in nearly everything that I have been communicating to you. You’re simply too ignorant to realize that.
“The differences in TRANSLATION?” According to TRANSLATION, everything save for “like you.” If you’re going to continue playing ignorant and refuse to fully read my messages, you may as well stop responding.
“Take each section of the line if you like. They’re actually pretty close in translation, with only the editing preferences changing things.”
“In TRANSLATION” — nope.
“Nothing is ‘mistranslated’ and you still haven’t provided any proof of why you think it is.”
Right, this being the third time, I refer to the authoritative dictionary that is Oxford. I won’t repeat my citation. Learn some reading comprehension or get out.
“Seriously, you’re just making yourself look silly now.”
Get that mirror away from your face. I’m over here.
“I mean, this line:
…
That made me chuckle.”
Good for you. I don’t ignorantly laugh away facts like you do, however, and “awkward” remains to be notion of opinion. Get over yourself.
“So you’re providing a translation that’s hard to read (native English speakers have even told you this) when subtitles rely on the viewers’ abilities to read the text onscreen.”
I wasn’t born herein the US of A, but having spent a great deal of my childhood here, I do consider myself a native English speaker as well. Having taught the language for two years, I think maybe you should let me teach you a thing or two, because your basic error in comprehending the difference between comma splice and interjecting clauses is a striking cause for worry.
“Yeah, that sounds like a great way to sub…”
Yeah, maybe you should actually read my last message. I’ve said my piece here, and nothing you can or will ever say will change that.
You know what sounds like a “great way to sub?” Using your own style of English for people of which the majority is different. Great logic there, Sherlock. Had you read my last message, however, you’d already see this extraordinarily massive flaw in your reasoning — or maybe you did and are just continuing to grasp at the air to continue your insult of an argument.
Maybe pointing a more BASIC MISTRANSLATION with a faulty tense will help cease your moronic rambling:
“A cool guy… could get used to naked women being around him.”
The original Japanese:
「クールな男は女の裸ぐらいなれてるぜ。」
The literal (perfect) translation:
“A cool guy is at least used to a woman’s nakedness/naked body.”
AnimeYoshi:
“A cool guy’s at least used to a woman’s naked body…”
This is BASIC Japanese (usually second semester or third quarter in uni): simple ACTION-IN-PROGRESS or PRESENT-TENSE.
There is no FUTURE-TENSE, “NAKED WOMEN,” or “BEING AROUND.”
I really hope that you’re looking forward to my full line-by-line as I am. Maybe it’ll teach you to stay your fingers from your keyboard a bit.
…
Kazuki, I’ve said my piece on translating with factual citation.
“What you are saying is that if you translate it, there’s no need of editing since it should be perfect already.”
No, actually, that is what YOU are saying.
“I just can’t seem to agree with that, especially after looking at your own example.”
Self-contradiction isn’t a very good way to get a point across. I never once said that editing isn’t done. What do you think that I’ve been meaning all this time with my constant mention of proper English? It most certainly was NOT that it isn’t to be used.
June 1st, 2008 at 3:45 pm 30
“Okay, seeing as you won’t actually address the issue. Tell me, what are the differences in translation here…”
I’ve already addressed this issue with citation of the original and the definition of “translation.” I’m not going to repeat myself for you. Web-browsers have scroll-bars a reason.
“Seriously, you’re just making yourself look silly now.”
Not only are you making yourself look silly, but you’re continuing while blatantly ignoring every single thing that I’ve pointed out that you’ve botched. If I were to assume, I’d say that’s somewhere approaching masochism.
“That made me chuckle.”
I don’t chuckle when people shove argument-crushing facts into my face… like the fact that “awkward” is a matter of opinion. You have to think that something is awkward for it to be awkward — form the opinion that it is awkward. Hearing Japanese names for the first time, people who are starting to get into anime probably think that they are awkward. Enough time later, however, they wouldn’t give a such passing thought. I was having a discussion with one of my old students exactly about that over lunch last month before he left for Japan.
Again, there is a saying as to ignorance.
“So you’re providing a translation that’s hard to read (native English speakers have even told you this) when subtitles rely on the viewers’ abilities to read the text onscreen. Yeah, that sounds like a great way to sub…”
So you’re providing a mistranslation that matches a single style of English that differs from that of the majority of your viewers when they rely on subtitles to read the on-screen text? Yeah, that sounds like a “great way” to sub.
Funny how your little awkward argument of opinion goes both ways, isn’t it? Opinions do that. They differ, you know?
You’ve proven that you lack a basic understanding of English sentence structure (the difference between independent and dependent clauses [read: “comma splice” for “interjecting clauses”) and that you also lack a basic understanding of the difference between opinion and fact (read: “awkward”). I suggest that you take a learning to what you decide to communicate upon before the next time you that communicate upon it.
For the record: Having been fluent in both Japanese and English since childhood, I also consider myself to be a native English speaker.
…
Kazuki, I’ve already said my piece and cited as to translation. As I’ve noted to FalseDawn time and time again (let’s hope he’ll muster some reading comprehension soon), I’m not going to repeat myself — especially not when all you have to do is scroll up.
“What you are saying is that if you translate it, there’s no need of editing since it should be perfect already.”
Your words — not mine. As for me, believe it or not, I do recall making mention as to “PROPER ENGLISH” in multiple instances.
“I just can’t seem to agree with that, especially after looking at your own example.”
I can’t seem to agree with those words of yours either, so I guess that makes two of us.
June 1st, 2008 at 8:46 pm 31
A line in perfect English isn’t necessarily a line that should be in a fansub. If I watch North American TV, people generally do not converse with the fairly complex sentences that AniYoshi seems to have used. As far as I can tell, all of the examples here contain the same meaning, and I doubt anyone involved in the production of the show itself would look at any of the translations and say “omg omg omg that’s not what we meant!”
That’s not to say that we should throw all elements of the original translation out in favor of making it have the exact same style, mistakes, etc, that everyday conversation has, but rather that elements of the target language (and sometimes culture) should be taken into account.
The extent to which elements of the target language are adapted into the translation, however, varies from group to group, and even from editor to editor. When it comes down to it, it’s personal preference, both on the part of the editor and the viewer. I’m sure many people favor one group’s translation/editing style over another’s in each case.
I won’t say which I prefer, as I am in AniYoshi and know people in various other Soul Eater groups, thus making me all kinds of biased. I will, however, say that from watching AniYoshi’s, A-E & Saizen’s, and S9’s all at once, there were aspects of each version that I liked and disliked. I can’t recall seeing any line where the meaning was different between the three groups, and thus my liking/disliking came down to the editing. I came to my own personal conclusion that no group is doing a “perfect” sub of this show.
Further bickering is a waste of time for everyone involved, and I’m sure we all have better things to do.
June 2nd, 2008 at 1:05 am 32
You guys are right. I’m wrong. You win. I lose. You’re rubber. I’m glue. I cannot argue with you.
(I hope you’re happy, Thomas.)
June 2nd, 2008 at 4:15 am 33
Since everyone was on the topic, i thought I’d just state my opinion on what type of subs i prefer…
Personally, i prefer it when the subs are as accurate to what’s being said as possible, with translations notes catering for differing cultures, or anything else, which may change the meaning.
I also prefer it when translations leave in the honorifics in names (even if i understand that someone foreign to it will see it and be utterly confused). Either way for this, i just listen to what they say in the audio.
There’s lots of other things that i do prefer as well, but most are pretty small, and in the end I’m just happy to be able to watch and understand the series.
P.S. When it comes to the example above, i personally had no problem reading and understanding both translations used. Maybe i was self-interpreting it, but to me for AnimeYoshi’s one, “anyone” was a comparison to “over a short-and-ugly like you”, not a reference to “for guys”.
P.S.S. Nice implementation of the [Open↓] thing, it was getting a bit long
June 11th, 2008 at 11:32 am 34
mickd
I agree with [AnimeYoshi] in their use of the new comment section. It’s so much better and now there’s no spam.
>_<
I don’t really mind how fansubbers choose to go about including or not including things like honorifics. It’s really up to them to decide.
June 14th, 2008 at 7:37 pm 35
Any more Late Shows coming? I really enjoy your style and only want to follow the Late edition…
June 15th, 2008 at 3:01 pm 36
Please be patient. Our editor has been busy with his work. Thus, he was unable to work on the episodes.
June 23rd, 2008 at 4:35 am 37
I see.
I was wondering what happened to Soul Eater. After watching your release of Episode 1 & Episode 2 (LATE NIGHT), I have to say that the quality is definitely top notch.
I guess I’ll continue to wait, and watch newer episodes by whoever releases them first, and then get the AnimeYoshi version for definitive archival purposes.
June 30th, 2008 at 3:12 pm 38
Hm.
It’s been another week and nothing about Soul Eater even mentioned on the site.
T_T
September 2nd, 2008 at 1:12 pm 39
I really enjoy your style and only want to follow the Late edition…
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